[00:00:01] Speaker A: He was born on a Saturday in 73. He loves punk rock music.
His motherfucking Andy scrolling Look at motherfucker. Cuz here he comes, Andy Sculling wearing his orange.
[00:00:26] Speaker B: Welcome to Unsigned518. I'm here with Matthew Clain. How's it going, man?
[00:00:31] Speaker C: It's going great. Thank you so much for having me.
[00:00:33] Speaker B: And of course. And you know, we just met in the. The driveway of. And this is called the Dazzle Den, if you did not know, by the way.
[00:00:42] Speaker C: It's dazzling.
[00:00:43] Speaker B: Yeah. Because Man Cave sounds super sexist. And I mean, you know, it's funny but like super serious. Like, I was like, I don't want it to be called the Man Cave. So we had a, A name, a naming contest. Oh, to be like, what can we name? This is years ago.
[00:00:59] Speaker C: Yeah, this is canon.
[00:01:00] Speaker B: And dazzle then won out and. And we were like, yeah, that sounds awesome.
[00:01:05] Speaker C: I see why. Yeah, it is. There's a lot of dazzle and some razzle going on in here.
[00:01:09] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, there's. There is a lot of dazzle.
[00:01:11] Speaker C: It's also not like underground or anything, so I feel like it's more of a. I mean, I'm not. I don't really know what the difference between a den and a cave is, but like, but. But I. Den seems right.
[00:01:20] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, it does seem right. Yeah. Because we are at ground level. You know, it's not. Although a lot of people have come, commented, like seeing videos that they feel like, you know, in the base it looks like it's a basement.
[00:01:31] Speaker C: Yeah. Basement lighting.
[00:01:32] Speaker B: Yeah, we don't even have a basement.
[00:01:35] Speaker C: Oh, you're like the.
You're like the Alamo.
[00:01:38] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, pretty much. We are pretty much the Alamo 100.
But we just met, like I said, in the. In the parking lot. And I, I always say, like, the way this is going to go is it's. It's an introduction to begin with. We'll just start talking and wherever it goes, it goes. And then, you know, we'll. We'll play some of your music and that's really it. You know, it's. Don't look at it as an interview. Look at it as just like a conversation. And that's actually funny because that's usually what I tell people before I get rolling. But I'm like, I'm going to. I'm going to put that on record that this is how it goes. It's not an interview conversation.
[00:02:16] Speaker C: All future guests take note.
[00:02:18] Speaker B: Yeah, all future guests take note. But anyway, so Matthew just kind of like, however you want to tell the story of your relationship with music, just kind of tell us, you know, how. How you found that you could make your own music, I guess.
[00:02:34] Speaker C: But yeah, it's pretty recent actually.
I come from poetry, which is my training.
I have a couple grad degrees in poetry, and I've been writing poetry since I was a kid and have lived a pretty full life in that world. Had a small press for a while, have some books out, have ran multiple reading series. Just have mostly devoted my life to poetry.
And just two summers ago.
[00:03:11] Speaker A: Had the.
[00:03:12] Speaker C: Thought that maybe those skills could translate that maybe my form, formal skills, my vocal play that I've been doing in performance, that is, maybe there's some songs in there, you know, and I had that thought before and every time it, it didn't pan out, it was like, you know, maybe every five years or so. And it was like, nope, nope, not, not yet. You know, stay in your lane, Matthew.
And then, yeah, this time, this time it just worked out.
[00:03:45] Speaker B: And were you playing? Like, do you have. You play guitar and sing? Like, did you have like a background kind of noodling with guitar? That went back, you know, as most. And it's funny because most, like, artists quote, unquote, like, whether it's the theater kids or the, the poets or the actual art, like, you know, painting or whatever, like, all of us kind of all dabble in guitar, whether you're a musician or not. You know what I mean? So is that the case with you, Defin?
[00:04:15] Speaker C: I had.
My mom played guitar and actually the guitar I play now is hers.
And that's why I pick it up every, you know, every five years or so, just because it's around the house.
But I wanted to learn.
I was talking to you beforehand. I went to high school in the early 90s, you know, was an alternate kid, you know, was steeped in all that alternative music and grunge music and, you know, guitar was amazing. Like, I wanted to be Kurt Kobe and I wanted to be in Pearl Jam.
So I took guitar lessons.
I was in a very shitty band that never played out, and I definitely couldn't play at all. I was the rhythm guitar, but had no rhythm.
And then, you know, quit because I eventually, after maybe four or five years, was like, this is not a thing, right? You know, like, this is. This is not going. This is not going places.
[00:05:10] Speaker B: And it's tough to be like, not to cut you off, but like, at that age, you know, because we're similar in age. I'm a couple years older but at that age, like when you're kind of coming into your own as an adult and like you really want to be a rock star, but you just understand it's not going to happen, it is so easy to put it to the wayside because you've got so much other to focus on, like just as a human being at that age, for sure.
[00:05:36] Speaker C: And I just, I mean, I also couldn't, could not sing in any way. And I maybe can now. And I don't know exactly when that happened.
It might just have to do with attitude.
[00:05:49] Speaker B: I was just gonna say it's a lot of. That is probably comfort level, like confidence.
[00:05:54] Speaker C: Comfort.
[00:05:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
[00:05:55] Speaker C: And who I am or, you know, I was a very bad stutterer when I was a kid, so I think that might have something to do with like not being able to like go full body into something.
So. Yeah, I play guitar so I could play the chords. You know, I, I know how to do dcg, you know, I know how to make an A minor. So.
And I'm kind of a minimalist by aesthetic, so kind of leaned into that in the songwriting here was like, oh, okay, maybe that's not so bad. You know, like, you know, I can do, I can Bob Dylan this. I can do three, four chords and roll.
[00:06:32] Speaker B: Because it is, you know. And I wanted to say something as you were saying, like, you're. And I, I say I don't do my research. I did a little bit of research. So I knew there was like a poetry background. And I wrote some poetry when I was younger. Certainly more than I was a musician. Like, if you'd have asked 21 year old me, I would be like, I'm not a musician. I write.
[00:06:51] Speaker C: Oh, amazing.
[00:06:52] Speaker B: You know, I write, I write, I write things. But it was very easy to translate it to music. So as soon as you were saying that, I'm like, obviously that makes sense. You know, if you're writing poetry, it's not just words.
It's different than writing a story or a book because there has to be a rhythm to poetry. Like, if I'm not mistaken, you have to have a rhythm to poetry. And if you have that deep history of a rhythm to poetry, just take that and add those couple chords and boom, you got fucking gold.
[00:07:25] Speaker C: You know, this is gonna sound pretentious and I don't mean it that way at all because there are just different schools and styles of poetry and, you know, communities and micro communities and subcultures and, you know, everybody's doing a bunch of different stuff. But I Came from, like, I started doing like, whacked out experimental stuff where I was just like borrowing text and collaging it and you know, making, you know, these like architectural text structures and came backwards into learning kind of traditional poetic structures when I had to teach and have gained a lot of respect for, you know, for classical forms and for, for syntactic smoothness. And so, I mean, I think that's also helped me with my songwriting. And when I was thinking like, oh, I know what a. You know, like, you know, I can do couplets or quatrains and those look like songs, whereas the stuff I was doing years ago kind of didn't.
But everything does have a rhythm. You're right. Like a personal.
Everybody's got a rhythm. Like just their personal way that they express themselves, you know, their, their patterns and whatnot.
[00:08:33] Speaker B: Their cadence.
[00:08:34] Speaker A: Yeah, cadence.
[00:08:34] Speaker C: Yeah, precisely.
[00:08:36] Speaker B: Yeah, yeah, yeah. It's. It's interesting the, the poetry angle of it. Like, not only, not only from a musical way, but storytelling wise, it's gonna be richer, I think, you know, because I'm in a. I'm in a punk band. Like, you know, we're not like telling these deep, deep stories. We're not selling attitude, but we're, you know, we're writing songs about like, how we feel about nothing specific.
You know what I mean? It's just like, you know, but when you come from a poetry background, that shit doesn't fly. Like, you're like, no, you gotta get some details in there.
[00:09:18] Speaker C: Oh, I love details. But also details can be unspecific or like, they could be so specific that they're decontextualized from, from. From their like, original context. And like, like a detail can be so rich and generative and then also you have like, no idea what it is. You know, I actually use a lot of very like, proper nouns in my songs because I like, I like the specificity of them.
But sometimes you don't know what you know or I don't even know what it, what is it implying, you know?
[00:09:52] Speaker B: Right.
[00:09:53] Speaker C: I could be. I don't know. That was vague talking about that.
[00:09:56] Speaker B: I mean, but that's good. That's good, you know, because it does show a contrast between vagueness and specificity and how you can, how you can merge them.
[00:10:03] Speaker C: And I'm not into, like, I don't, I don't really have a punk rock attitude in my heart, but I know that punk rock is about attitude. I was going to use the word atmosphere for like what I do, but it's attitude. And atmosphere can be similar. It's a vibe or whatever.
And like, the country music has that. Or folk music has that like a kind of atmosphere that you just sort of can. Can like, live in for a while and embody. And it just sort of like sets the.
[00:10:28] Speaker B: It sets a tenor and like, with some of the. Some, you know, saying, you know, folk music, but like, even going into, like, Americana or like.
What am I trying to say? Like Adirondack folk that tell. Like, each song is a story. Like, you know, the story, you know, like, you listen to the song and you're like, you have Act One, Act Two. Like, you have protagonists. And.
[00:10:53] Speaker C: Is Adirondack folk a genre?
[00:10:55] Speaker B: Yeah. Is it? I don't know if it's Adirondack, but I had an artist on. And I'm blanking now because I had like, three edibles this morning.
But who was. Was in a particular genre of folk music, and I think it was Adirondack.
[00:11:10] Speaker C: That sounds great, because here we are, right?
[00:11:11] Speaker B: And like, I was all like, stories of, like, the building up of this area, you know, like a lot of, like, logging industry stories and forestry stuff. But it's all very storytelling driven.
[00:11:25] Speaker C: Right on.
[00:11:25] Speaker B: Which I think is. Is kind of a cool way to. Kind of a cool way to do it, which is, again, the opposite of what I do in. In our music is more, you know, this.
You know, we have a song called Don't Care, you know, and it's literally pretty vague. You know what I mean? And it's just like, yeah, I don't care about a lot of things. And, you know, a lot of people have been like, hey, this song's about this or this song's about that. And I'm like, you're all wrong. Yeah, but nice try. Whereas storytelling stuff, it's like, no, no, the song is about this because it tells you. You know what I mean? Like, it's about this.
[00:12:01] Speaker C: Like, right on, Zo.
[00:12:02] Speaker A: I don't know.
[00:12:03] Speaker B: I'm rambling.
Anyway, I want to hear or we want to play some songs for the people.
[00:12:09] Speaker C: So.
[00:12:09] Speaker B: So what song were you gonna play for us today, Matthew?
[00:12:12] Speaker C: Let's cue up the Lord Won't Mind.
[00:12:14] Speaker B: Okay, yeah, cool. Let's check out the Lord Won't Mind, and then we'll be right back to talk some more with Matthew Clean.
[00:12:22] Speaker A: I stole this line from my friend Chris, who stole it from David Burton, who stole it from Genesis.
They're only words the Lord won't mind.
The Lord won't mind.
The Lord won't Mind they're only words the Lord won't mind the Lord the Lord won't mind There are only words the Lord won't mind I swore on my diary I swore on my shopping cart My FBI dossier Across my heart the Lord won't mine the Lord won't mine the Lord won't mine I cross my heart the Lord won't mine the Lord the Lord won't mind I'll cross my heart the Lord won't mind.
[00:14:06] Speaker C: I'll.
[00:14:06] Speaker A: Cross my partner across my pets Across My favorite therapist I cross my eyes and dart my tease oh be it's what it is the Lord won't mind what it is Loneliness what it is Misery Despondent words the Lord won't mind.
[00:14:58] Speaker B: All right, that was the Lord Won't Mind, Matthew Clayne. And that one's off the album. Too Little Too Late.
And I guess, Matthew, let's talk about, you know, we. We told the story of, you know, how the poetry kind of melded into music. And now let's. Let's go into the creating of the album because now you're. You have a. Have an album out there.
[00:15:18] Speaker C: Sure. Yeah. That song was written pretty early in my. In my songwriting experience.
[00:15:27] Speaker A: I had.
[00:15:28] Speaker C: I was traveling for poetry, and I was in Minneapolis doing a reading, and I met this poet's brother.
And I was apologizing. I forget why. I have a lot of guilt that I carry. I just was, you know, apologizing, and he just said, the Lord won't mind. And I thought, oh, no, is my friend. Poet friend's brother, like a fundamentalist.
I was a little worried that, like, I had said something else or that, like, I, you know, just didn't know what I was walking into. And then I found out later that it was just a David Byrne quote from. From a Talking Head song.
And I thought that was great. And it's just, like, a wonderful thing to say whenever you're feeling troubled or that you've done something. So I thought I would, you know, make a little song about it. And it came together pretty quick.
That's the song that I have on the top of my band camp. You know, if I just. If I feel like someone wants to get a quick taste, that's going to go down easy, you know, they can.
They can have a little sip of the Lord Won't Mind.
[00:16:34] Speaker B: And so, like, the other. The other songs in the album, like, when did you, like, specifically set out to be? Like, all right, I'm gonna record an album. I'm gonna write these Songs for the album, or did you already kind of have a few of the songs kicking around?
[00:16:47] Speaker C: I had a whole year's worth that I had been kicking around. Probably even more.
[00:16:52] Speaker B: Okay.
[00:16:52] Speaker C: Probably four or five more.
And I wanted to record some for demos, thinking I was ready to play out and just wanted something to share so I could email venues with, with, with. And I didn't even think there would be any other instruments on the record. I thought it was just gonna be me.
I had written them all on an unplugged electric guitar and recorded all the demos that way and thought that's all we were gonna do.
And then I found Jimmy Woodle, Jimmy W.
Who produced the record.
And Jimmy had the idea to mic up the unplugged electric, but then run the speakers into the other room and then mic the speakers to give it, like, a little.
And so we recorded six songs that way, including the Lord Won't Mind was in that first batch.
And then I thought we were done. And he was like, okay, let's lay down some percussion.
And then he said, okay, well, let's, you know, let's lay down some bass. And then it's interesting that you.
[00:17:55] Speaker B: That you didn't realize that the rest was coming. Like, that's going to be a fucking trip to, like, be like, what? What now?
[00:18:03] Speaker C: Almost immediately. Like, I mean, I didn't know what I was in for. I had never recorded music before.
I didn't know if the songs were really good or not.
I mean, I thought they were. And some people had given me some feedback that they weren't terrible. And I didn't kind of. But I still was, you know, kind of open to the experience. And the songs are simple, and they're. They're sort of like Jimmy, sort of like blank canvases, because, you know, there's some rhythm, but it's minimal. And the guitar is so minimal, and the chord progressions are so simple.
And, yeah, he had a resonator guitar in there, which I think plays on that on that song.
I had given him some prompts, some, like, creative prompts that some of them had to do with some records that I was sort of interested in sounding like.
And one of them was Vic Chestnut's first record. Do you know Vic? He's. He's a folk singer from Athens, Georgia, from North Florida, who was, like, in and around the alternate scene in the 90s, but had a life a little before and had a life afterwards.
And on his first record, it's just him on, like, a. What sounds like a what Sounds like an unplugged electric guitar, even though, I mean, it's probably not. And then I think it's called.
I didn't know what it was called, but I think it's called a mellotron.
Or the. The syllables are so close to that. I'm probably. I'm probably off, but it sounds like a little organ or, or, you know, like an electric piano.
[00:19:38] Speaker B: I mean, melotron sounds like it could be an organ. You know what I mean? Like, if I was. If I was in the organ naming.
[00:19:43] Speaker C: Business, let's just say it, you know, let's just say it.
And he brought it out for that, which was just like his piano patch or whatever patch on his piano. And he, He. He brought it out for that track. And it just sounds so warm and nice on it. And I think it shows up a couple times on the record. But that was the prompt for this song that, that, that, that got it going. And, yeah, we did six songs in three days. And then I came back a month later and did six more songs, and that was the record.
It happened real fast.
And almost immediately, the two of us were looking at each other like, whoa, there's this. There's something happening. Like, this is. This sounds great. I mean, I don't know. I think for me it was more like seeing his excitement felt me, got me excited because I thought, like, oh, this is happening. But also it was so beyond the way I was hearing the songs, being able to come to life that I was sort of, you know, giddy.
[00:20:38] Speaker B: Right? And then to be a whole part of that experience where you have someone, you know, because, like, you were saying you didn't have a past with producing music and to have someone like Jimmy who, like, knows what they are doing and they're just like, let's go this way. And to be able to be like, what, like, with my stuff, like, for sure. It's a cool. A cool thought.
[00:20:58] Speaker C: And I sort of found him by accident. I mean, I'm. I'm meeting the music scene in the last year or two, but, like, I didn't know.
I didn't know him previously. I was recommended by a friend of a friend and found my way to his inbox. And it was, you know, sort of happenstance.
[00:21:17] Speaker B: Calvin likes to. Likes to occupy the space that others are in.
[00:21:23] Speaker C: It's so great. I love it so much.
[00:21:26] Speaker B: Everybody, everybody knows Calvin, the famous podcast dog.
For those that don't, he's here hanging out and pushing, pushing Matthew out of the way.
[00:21:35] Speaker C: He looks so right on this Couch, like, it's so perfect. So much righter than me, dude. Yeah.
[00:21:42] Speaker B: He hangs out in here sometimes, like, when nobody's home.
Like, he likes it. He likes this couch. You know, he's kind of like, yeah, this is my couch for six days out of the week. And one day a week, it's others.
[00:21:53] Speaker C: Right on.
[00:21:54] Speaker B: Yeah.
So you know the album, you did it in basically two couple day sessions.
[00:22:00] Speaker C: Yeah. Last fall.
[00:22:02] Speaker B: Wow. And you, you know, had all the songs worked out with no idea that they were gonna be fleshed out in the way that they were, and additional instruments.
[00:22:12] Speaker C: That was the order I put them in. Like, I had an idea of, like, how they went together that wasn't what they were written in, but I, like. I, like, picked the order in advance, and we recorded them in that order. And it's just like, the album just, like.
I mean, I think it's a little bit of beginner's luck, you know, and if we tried to do it that simple again, you know, I'm sure.
[00:22:32] Speaker B: Well, because now the.
It's the mysteries. The mystery's gone. You know what I mean? Now, you know, when you're writing songs, like, oh, there's gonna be other stuff, but that's gonna be an amazing thing, I'm telling you. Once you start, like, thinking about the writing, you know, you've just got your guitar, but you're like, well, you know, we can add this here and that here and that here, like, for sure.
[00:22:55] Speaker C: And I'm. One of my goals for this year is to find a band, a playing band. And I do have some things in the works.
A friend who plays the bass six and started talking to a guitar player.
And my friend James does, like, atmospheric, electronic found sound and beats and stuff. And then I'm thinking also, I mean, I do.
It's not in that song that we just heard. The Lord won't mind, but it is in the name of the band. I do a lot of mouth trumpet on the record, and I'm thinking maybe just a. A regular trumpet player would be fun when we're playing with a full band. Because the mouth trumpet wouldn't play as much. You know, it wouldn't sound as sad and lonely. It would just. You just wouldn't hear it, probably.
[00:23:43] Speaker B: Well, you know, before we go, is there another song from the album that you want to throw on?
[00:23:48] Speaker C: Yeah, let's. Let's play It's Gonna Get Worse.
[00:23:51] Speaker B: All right, sweet. Well, let's play It's Gonna Get Worse up the album. Too little too late, and go check it out. It's available on all streaming platforms and and all that. And then we'll be right back to wrap it up with Matthew clean.
[00:24:03] Speaker A: Oh, this rain ain't got no bull oh, there's a rock ain't got no bottom.
How low can he get you on a bit.
It's gonna get worse?
It's gonna get worse before it gets worser it's gonna get worser before it gets worse again before it gets worse?
It's gonna get worser before it gets worser?
It's going to get worse?
You want to bet your itsy britches whatever jackpot stuffed into your sock whatever's pursed in the federal reserve it won't be enough?
It's gonna get worse it's gonna get worse before it gets worser it's gonna get worser before it gets worse again before it gets worse?
It's gonna get worse before it gets worse?
It's gonna get worse?
You better be walking first aid kit you better have practice no attachment you better know morse code you better have rent the rope you best delay plans if there only a rule it's gonna get worse before it gets worse it's gonna get worser before it gets worse again before it gets worse it's gonna get bo.
It gets worse it's gonna get worse.
[00:26:45] Speaker B: All right, that was gonna get worse up the album Too little too late from Matthew Klein and. And Matthew, I want to thank you so much for taking time out of your day to come up here and do this with me. It's always like really cool to get to meet new people in the scene. And before we go, like I do with all my guests, I want to give you a chance to say what I refer to as your gratitude.
[00:27:06] Speaker C: First of all, thank you so much for having me here.
I've seen the Dazzle Den on the Instagram and I've seen you on the Instagram and all the work that you do in the area and it's really cool to see it in person. It was cool to drive up and see you in the driveway and like, oh, yeah, that's that dude that I know you've been a help for me personally just to figure out, you know, what's going on in the area.
And so thanks. Thanks Calvin here for keeping me company on the couch.
I want to thank Jimmy for all of his work on this record.
It's pretty much a co made record considering he plays almost all the instruments on it and had a lot to do with how it came alive on that song. You just heard it's gonna get worse.
The voice there is Girl Blue.
I was like, Jimmy. I think I thought it kind of had like a like a sunny side of life vibe to it. Except even though the, the chorus goes, it's gonna get worse before it gets worser that, you know, it'd be playfully sardonic to have like a, you know, like a bluegrass where old brother. We're at our sunny side of life vibe and I'm just like, you think Ariel would want to like staying on the same on the track with me? And then she was totally game for it and, and even game for being like that mean spirited like in terms of the vibe of the song. And so, I mean, I feel exceptionally grateful for the talent that was brought in to help make that song and that record come alive.
So, yeah, thanks to them.
[00:28:47] Speaker B: All. Right, so he is Matthew Plain. I am Andy scullin. This is unsigned 518 and I'll see you on the road.
Unsigned 518 is produced and hosted by me, Andy Scullin. New episodes are available every week wherever you stream podcasts. If you'd like to help support the show, please like and subscribe wherever you are listening. Or you could buy me a
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Take care of one another and I'll see you next week.
